I'm surprised at the variety of different techniques in use! I don't have that much time to measure and see what works best, unfortunately, though I do live in a pretty easy growing area, with mild weather year round.

Are there any watering heuristics I can use that probably won't kill my succulents (of which I have a lot of different varieties)? For example, with non-succulents advice on the forums is often "wait until the top inch is dry, and then water thoroughly." Is there a similar one-size-fits-all advice for succulents? "Water weekly April - September and twice a month otherwise," for example, or "water when the top two inches are dry."

Don't know how to answer that. It sort of comes naturally. No given formula. Conditions are always changing. Best rule of thumb would be "If you don't know for sure, then don't. Wait another day and water". Better dry then wet. Over the years I killed so many with too much care. I noticed some grew best when I forgot about them or let go dry more often. Main reason I love succulents now. It is no worry to travel or forget about then for long spells and they do well.

kevinmeyer said:I'm surprised at the variety of different techniques in use! I don't have that much time to measure and see what works best, unfortunately, though I do live in a pretty easy growing area, with mild weather year round.

Are there any watering heuristics I can use that probably won't kill my succulents (of which I have a lot of different varieties)? For example, with non-succulents advice on the forums is often "wait until the top inch is dry, and then water thoroughly." Is there a similar one-size-fits-all advice for succulents? "Water weekly April - September and twice a month otherwise," for example, or "water when the top two inches are dry."

To the extent we live in a similar climate, I can offer advice based on my experience. Indoor plants can be watered at the same frequency year round if they get strong light in the winter (a bright southerly exposure). Outdoor plants can also be watered at the same frequency year round (barring rainfall of course) but you might benefit from waiting longer to water when it is cool or overcast or especially foggy. The actual interval will depend on the soil mix, the pot shape/size, and the exposure. I water most of my succulents weekly but they are in a mix of 50% pumice and all of them "see" the sun for hours a day.

i use a modified soda bottle and cap for fine stream water to keep neat with 50ish indoors plants. mostly water once a week. mist daily (not so much the succulents) and keep my succulents/dry lovers in different south window setup than tropicals with humidifier in other wndow.

only my hoyas, bougainvillea overwinter, and maybe another one or two get 1.5 or fortnightly watering (once every two weeks)

in mid winter i might kick this schedule back half a week (extend everything half a week) and mid summer vice versa. things seem happy
for the most part.

i treat with neem/soap if necessary for mealybugs on the succulents, etc. but i keep air moving to avoid it




the OP had a good tip to make multiple passes or soak thoroughly. i multipass or wait until it goes thru drainage or damn close to it anyway

I really need to learn from you guys about this watering succulents, especially for us living in a hot climate where the temperature can reach up to 38C, summer daily range will be 25C - 38C (77F - 100F) . I understand the general rule of thumbs is "to water a lot until the water drips from the draining holes and wait until the soil dry at depth before the next water". I also read in other post that not to water much at a dry plants at hot weather as they will even stress the plants more, and will kill them eventually. Try to connect all the information but still can not get a clear picture, something still missing. Below are how I water my succulent now, including the reason why I did it, please help me to find the missing link:
A. I water the succulents at late afternoon or night, not in the morning, afraid that if the soil is soggy, at noon time when the temperature is high, the water will become too hot and will cook the cactus
B. I don't give too much water to make the soil wet for the same reason as A, I ever measure the cactus mix, knowing that it will need around 25ml to be completely wet, then I only give them around 17ml of water
C. I water the soil using modified bottle with straw, never water the plant/leaves
D. I don't spray the plant, as have experienced that water trapped on the leaves under direct sunlight ( sunny days) will create sunburn, if there were rains at night, I have to dry out the water from the cactus leaves in the morning for the same reason
E. sometimes when the I feel that the weather is hot, but not reach the water schedule, I will mist some of the plant using nano sprayer
F. Most of the time I water the plant when the soil is dry ( normally twice a week) , but for some plants that I assume need more water, every now and then
I give them additional water.

With the above watering method, so far the cactus generally ok, but I have killed almost 10 echeverias and 2 gollums, have get some good insight from the members here, but still try to dig more into this.

Would appreciate if you guys can help me with this, tx

Kaktus said:I really need to learn from you guys about this watering succulents, especially for us living in a hot climate where the temperature can reach up to 38C, summer daily range will be 25C - 38C (77F - 100F) . I understand the general rule of thumbs is "to water a lot until the water drips from the draining holes and wait until the soil dry at depth before the next water". I also read in other post that not to water much at a dry plants at hot weather as they will even stress the plants more, and will kill them eventually. Try to connect all the information but still can not get a clear picture, something still missing. Below are how I water my succulent now, including the reason why I did it, please help me to find the missing link:
A. I water the succulents at late afternoon or night, not in the morning, afraid that if the soil is soggy, at noon time when the temperature is high, the water will become too hot and will cook the cactus
B. I don't give too much water to make the soil wet for the same reason as A, I ever measure the cactus mix, knowing that it will need around 25ml to be completely wet, then I only give them around 17ml of water
C. I water the soil using modified bottle with straw, never water the plant/leaves
D. I don't spray the plant, as have experienced that water trapped on the leaves under direct sunlight ( sunny days) will create sunburn, if there were rains at night, I have to dry out the water from the cactus leaves in the morning for the same reason
E. sometimes when the I feel that the weather is hot, but not reach the water schedule, I will mist some of the plant using nano sprayer
F. Most of the time I water the plant when the soil is dry ( normally twice a week) , but for some plants that I assume need more water, every now and then
I give them additional water.

With the above watering method, so far the cactus generally ok, but I have killed almost 10 echeverias and 2 gollums, have get some good insight from the members here, but still try to dig more into this.

Would appreciate if you guys can help me with this, tx

I'll give you some of my thoughts based on my experiences, but bear in mind most of my experience isn't from a climate with as much humidity and year round warm temps.

A. I do this when the outside temps are hot and still too warm at night. But I think if the soil is soggy at mid-day, then the plant has insufficient roots for the container/soil mix combined with climate conditions. Seems like the root system should be developed enough to prevent that. Soggy means something quite different to me than moist or damp as a descriptive word.

B. My question is whether this applies when you add an active root system to the soil mix? Is your measure derived from soil without roots? The uptake of moisture in the soil by the plant should affect the saturation. At least it seems that way to me.

C & D. Depends on the plants. Good for many plants, but there are those who thrive with wet foliage. In my drier climate it really benefits some plants like ferns and epiphyllums and even some almost shrubby plants with shiny, hard leaves. I don't think a lot of succulents enjoy wet foliage most of the time, in my experience anyway.

E. For some plants, a fine mist is helpful. Others, not so much. I've used some cheap ones that sprayed a very fine mist that attached to the end of a water hose. In a small area of dappled shade it can cool the air around plants when it turns excessively hot and dry to a level they can tolerate better. Worked really well around some in the Gesneriad family.

F. I think that is true depending on the plant. It's hard to overwater some kinds in my climate, but I can't think of any succulents or cacti where that would be the case. At least of the ones I've grown.

You seem to do pretty well with your plants if the photos you post are any indication. Anytime you acquire something different, there's a bit of learning curve on figuring out what is best in very specific circumstances. Any advice shouldn't be taken as a certainty for your specific location

Thanks @needrain for the insight, would appreciate also inputs from others..

Forget to mention that almost all of my pots are made from glass, which is a good heat conductor.

I don't have any experience with heat, but I'll weigh in on a couple things here that relate to climate and watering.

You kind of have to cross certain plants off your list, given the conditions you have described. Echeveria for one. Quite a few members of that family. The Canary Island ones (Aeonium), most of the Mexican ones (Graptopetalum, Dudleya, Pachyphytum), a bunch of the South African ones (many Crassulas). Many of these plants will do well indoors given lots of light and some degree of climate control.

Look at the climate where plants come from to know what kind of heat and humidity they might be able to tolerate. The soft leafy rosette succulents are generally going to be problematic. I would imagine agaves as well, most aloes, many desert cacti. Not to say that you shouldn't try whatever strikes your fancy, just keep your expectations low and maybe aim your focus on the groups that work well for you (of which there are quite a few, judging by your pictures).

You might want to start playing with a few unglazed clay pots, for a couple of reasons. They will tend to dry out faster (evaporation occurring through the sides as well as the top), and they will tend to be cooler (all this evaporation having a cooling effect on the pot and the plant it contains), at least as long as there is moisture in the soil to evaporate.

When it comes to watering in clay pots, I don't actually change my rhythm (ie. they get water when my plastic and ceramic pots do), but I do have a higher confidence that they reach a drier state more reliably. Some people report the need to water clay pots much more often, especially when it is hot and dry, and especially when the sun hits the pot for much of the day. Clay pots tend to be popular where there is heat and humidity (like Florida).

Be aware that very small clay pots (<= 10-12cm inner diameter) behave quite differently compared to larger ones (>=15-20cm ID), drying out much faster. I actually stopped using the smaller ones because I refuse to water them more often. This happens because of the relation between surface area and volume. The amount of water a pot can hold is proportional to the volume (dimension cubed) but the rate of evaporation is proportional to the surface area (dimension squared). So small pots have a really high rate of evaporation relative to how much water they can hold. I hope that makes sense. You can do a few experiments using pots without plants in them to see how they behave after watering or rainfall.

Yea, agree with you that I may have to cross out some of the plant, echeverias are out. As for Aeoniums, I have seen some thin leaves species can grow quite well in our neighborhood (not sure if they are aeoniums, but looks similar). Agave and aloes should be fine, I've seen a lot, but personally I don't really like the last two, possibly I haven't seen the exotic version of them, In here Aloe is cultivate for food and cosmetics, the size of the leaves can reach 60 to 80 cm each.
Feel sad to hear that crassula must go, I love crassula ovata gollum very much, have killed 2 of them

on the material for pots, now I started to use melamine pot as combination, heard of clay pots than can help to absorb excess water and to release some water when the soil is too dry, have used them for orchid. But I still do not find any cactus clay pot that fit my taste and budget, will keep on working on it. Thanks a lot Baja

I tend to run into some of the same problems with both heat and humidity. So far a lot of my succulents are doing fine but I do have to avoid a lot of the really nice plants
which prefer very little humidity. Right now and it is still in the morning here in Houston, TX the humidity is 56% (which is dry for me) and at 11:35 AM it is sunny and 89 F
but it already feels like it is 97 F So by some time this afternoon it will probably feel like it is in the triple digits. So I have the problem of avoiding many types of succulents
such as Sempervivums, Dudleyas, and others that @Baja_Costero has mentioned!

This issue has been bothering me for quite sometime, as per current hot weather, all the cactus are outside exposed to direct sunlight. I water my cactus and succulents once in every 2 to 3 days, If I have to travel for 2 or 3 weeks, what will be my option ? ( forget about greenhouse )
1. Move all cactus to other place that can only have indirect sunlight
2. Give a more frequent watering regime before traveling, so they will keep more water as their water savings for the next 3 weeks
3. Gradually reduce the water frequency before travelling, so they can survive a longer period without water
4. Put them in a sealed transparent containers, so to allow them to have sunlight, but still can keep the water moisture inside ( I used this method before, and I don't need to water the cactus for 10 days, but last time I made experiment for 5 cactus, and apply at single cactus, now we are talking about 150 to 200 cactus)
5. Install simple water misting, controlled with timer, mist them every night.

So far I can think of 1 + ( either 2 or 3 ) + ( either 4 or 5)

Thanks a lot for the input and recommendation

I might just have to consider watering the cacti and succulents.

How hot is it actually getting?
What is your humidity like on a daily basis?

I think your watering frequency for actual cacti is very high unless it is above 40C on a daily basis all day long.

I would not enclose your cacti in a sealed container that has high humidity that is just asking for many of them to develop rot.

Can you get shade cloth?

If it were me and I was not dealing with 40+ C with very low humidity on a daily basis, but like mid-high 30s and moderate humidity, I'd water the cacti thoroughly the day before I'd leave on the trip and cover everything in 50% shade cloth or so. If they are actual cacti they should be a little thirsty but other than that just fine when you'd get back. Now other succulents might suffer a bit with that solution.

Even in the height of summer when it is 40+C here most days I water my potted cacti, agaves and aloes which live under 50% shade cloth at most once a week, given that for here 40% humidity is high my pots dry out pretty fast, and maybe some plants would grow better if I watered more frequently but it is simply too much work, I have a small selection of plants I water twice a week if I think of it, but that is about 10-15 plants most of which are not cacti, agaves, or aloes. For my aloes I have special rules if it is over 29-30C at night - then I do not water them, which unfortunately we have been getting a lot in recent years.

I live in tropical climate in Indonesia, at night maybe around 25/26, mid day may reach 38, humidity around 60. I have mix of succulents and cacti, I failed to grow echeverias and crassulas in here, some haworthias that have hard skin is ok, aloes and agave should be alright.

If just applying shade cloth can keep them alive for 2 to 3 weeks without watering, then that will be a very simple solution for me. But will that be any difference between applying shade cloth and keeping them in the location without direct sunlight ? I can easily move them to a place where they do not have direct sunlight during vacation

I figured that it probably what it was like, but I did not want to assume. You are getting not quite as hot or dry as our summers here, mid-high 90s topping out around 100... mid to late spring here but with a lot more humidity were you are at generally.

Moving them to a shady spot would work too, but I was thinking that moving them might be a problem and some plants definitely do not like their sun exposure side changed - so you'd have to keep track of that - provide south facing markers on your pots. The ease of shade cloth is that it allows the plants to stay in place but you can control their sun exposure, but it would require the acquisition of shade cloth.

So when you say a mix of succulents and cacti things could get more complicated, as mentioned I treat most of my plants the same, but it does mean I simply do not grow certain things that take more attention than I am able or willing to give (e.g. my Stapeliads have been given away or have become indoor plants - the non-stinky ones that is) to make them survive here. Some Aloes I want to grow are on the borderline with that generic treatment and many Aloes I simply cannot grow, nor do I grow any of the echeverias, aeoniums (though these I am going to try as I have read how you might grow them here), dudleyas, sempervivums, etc.

If you have some time to experiment, I'd see how creating longer pauses between waterings affects your different types of plants. I am pretty sure most cacti would be fine with 2-3 weeks without water, especially with that kind of humidity - in early to mid spring that is my usual watering frequency on the order of two to three weeks depending. My pots dry out a lot slower if our humidity gets to the 40s during the day, which does happen, during our monsoon season it will have days where it is that humid even if it is not raining, but most of the time we are well below 20, and in June/July we are single digits, then my smaller pots are probably dry a day after I water them.

Thanks alot @mcvansoest , it will be not difficult for me to setup this kind of shading net as per picture below, we can arrange 30% to 70% shade.


Slightly off topic, you mentioned about sun exposure side changed, this trigger another question for me, I often change the cacti direction, even slightly move them to different location base on the cacti performance, If I find some of the leaves or branches dries out, then I will assume its current location is too hot, then I'll put it into other location, and I always turn the cacti around so that they can have a balanced color between the front and back, also to ensure an even growth of the cacti, I can see that the cacti will bend a little bit if I don't turn them. The elongated cactus will bend to 1 direction in 3 days. What will be your thought on these turning issues? Tx

Kaktus said:
........................... to ensure an even growth of the cacti, I can see that the cacti will bend a little bit if I don't turn them. The elongated cactus will bend to 1 direction in 3 days. What will be your thought on these turning issues? Tx

I'll be interested to hear the response as well. I find the cacti that have columnar growth do tilt toward the sun rather quickly, especially during the times when they actively growing the fastest. The smaller rounder barrels will end up with a bit of a higher side on the sun facing side. Not as obvious as the taller growing types, but still there after a time. I do try to keep the tall ones rotated regularly, but am not as attentive the smaller ones. It's some trouble, so for anyone who had a lot of container grown plants it could turn into a chore.

Since this is the thread about watering I will keep it short: it is something that a lot of plants do, it is part of their growth habit. One of the native AZ barrel's common name is: compass barrel cactus because they all grow towards the point in the sky where they get the most sunlight - in a clear unobstructed skyline, not quite south, but close. In that case it is a natural behavior that the plant is mostly able to account for: it develops a lean, but does not grow obviously asymmetric, but it is generally one of the main reasons why old compass barrel plants succumb (aside from human interference): they get too tall and heavy and when the lean gets too bad they will fall over and uproot themselves.
In other plants especially in lower light conditions it is a clear sign that they are not receiving enough sunlight for their needs. This of course can get complicated if the sun you can give it is so harsh that it would burn the plant badly, in that sense shade cloth can help because you can still give the plant 'all day' sun (or whatever portion you were giving it), but you are reducing the harshness.
So if a plant is burning on the sun side in its current position just turning it around will burn the other side, if you move it and turn it and the new position gets less sun the new side may not burn, the not burning is not because of the turning it is because of moving it. If in response the cactus starts to lean towards the sun in its new position there is a chance especially if it was not doing it before that in its new place it is getting too little sun. If you leave this situation for too long the plant will start to grow in an asymmetric manner, with the non sun side growing faster increasing the lean and giving the plant a weird look.

Here is a recent picture of part of my back yard, there is a golden barrel (towards the left edge) in the picture that at my previous house which I moved from just under 2.5 years ago was grown in way too much shade and you can it has developed a hump - the shaded back side has grown much fast than the front of the cactus causing what is normally the roughly horizontal crown of the plant to be almost vertical facing what would have been south to get as much sun on it as it can catch. Here at the new place the location of the plant is not at all shady and I have to protect it in the summer from the sun with a small piece of shade cloth. This year I noticed for the first time that it is starting to show signs it may be trying to correct itself. Not sure if it will succeed and how long it will take, but it will probably always remain a somewhat 'deformed' plant.

There is a barrel in the middle of the picture that is leaning a bit towards the sun, but without the asymmetry, that is what you'd expect from a more normal lean.

OK too long, but hopefully that gives you some info.

@mcvansoest
But Thijs, won't in time all those plants lean slightly away from the wall? Most of mine get all day sun, but the path of the sun is not directly overhead, so there is the slight growth leaning toward that path unless the plants are rotated in orientation. It's slight in any given season of growth, but cumulative over time if the rotation doesn't occur. I've only burned them when they were kept too long somewhere out of the all day sun. Not often in that case unless they are coming out of the winter months. When I take them from the covered porch back out in all day sun (they get quite a bit on the porch, just not all day) I try to remember to make sure I've been rotating them before they go back. Sometimes the sun here gets to be too much in July and August and they get relocated to a dappled shade area or the porch to avoid some of that sun they like the rest of the year.

Some will, some won't, the heat radiating from the wall will definitely cause some plants to lean away, but I guess since south is to the left in the picture it would be unclear if the lean is due to the hot wall or just leaning towards the sun (based on where I lived before where I had a west facing wall, most leaners were leaning southwest so mostly due to the highest sun exposure and less because of the heat of the wall).
Obviously, if you have plants in pots and you rotate them often enough you can avoid the lean, but if you'd be able to put those plants in the ground that luxury disappears and you would find if plants are getting all the sun they want/need that some would start leaning and some would not - on top of that if you'd dig the plant up and plant straight but rotated say the plant 90 degrees, the newly exposed south facing side would burn horribly.
My main point is that in many plants leaning towards the sun is natural, but that it can also be a sign that plants are not getting enough sun in those cases with time you get the pronounced asymmetric of growth, if it is a natural lean that asymmetric will be much less noticeable it will just be an overall lean that the whole plant develops (like that one barrel in the center of the picture).
Some of the cacti in my picture will develop that lean, but others will certainly not. That Golden Barrel really wants its crown to be mostly horizontal facing up, it will probably not ever fully get there again, but it will interesting to see what happens.